Navistar Gets Nasty with Ford (Again)

Navistar Claiming Ford is Stealing Design for New Engine

Posted June 7 2007 01:12 PM by esanchez
Filed under: Diesel News, Diesel Observations, Trend Observations, Ford

The Chicago Tribune is reporting that Navistar is now accusing Ford of essentially ripping off a design that the two companies developed in association with each other in a European joint-venture. The company has filed a lawsuit against the automaker over the allegations.

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The so-called "Project Lion" was a design for a smaller-displacement diesel V-8 that would go into Ford half-ton trucks and SUVs. Navistar is contending that Ford is moving ahead with the project internally, but using design and engineering recommendations made by Navistar engineers who were consultants on the project.

Navistar is seeking up to $2 billion in damages if Ford breaches its contract with the diesel engine manufacturer before the original 2012 contract expiration.

Diesel Power's Take: Ford and Navistar seems to be the diesel drama of the last few years, and we probably haven't seen the end of it yet.

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Reader Comments:

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1. I hope Navistar loses their asses! I bought at 2004 Powerstroke and expected a rival to the Cummins, but instead got an expensive motor with torque-to-yeild fasteners. So to compensate for this design flaw, the NM Ford dealer I used to use detuned my truck against my will, and would not detail the reprogramming despite my persistant efforts. Now I understand that this is to avoid blowing head gaskets that Navistar is not fixing under warrenty! A pox on them both!
-Pissed in NM!

PwrSci - Posted June 7 2007 08:46 PM

2. ford is using the land rover design from europe... the rover motor is said to be just as quiet as the new 6.4l motor but is more effiecent than any other diesel produced for the U.S. market... Navistar is just behind in the quiet diesel tech... My opinion is that ford needs to devorce navistar and start the honeymoon with cat or even john deere to get a fresh start in the diesel market.... my '08 Super Duty is awsome... no problems yet!!!

redneck-jr - Posted June 10 2007 06:20 AM

3. i think ford needs to throw away navistar for all the trouble that they have caused and throw a john deere into it.

superduty - Posted June 15 2007 10:45 AM

4. When is the agreement between Dodge and Cummins expire? That seems like the natural fit. All the farmers in the U.S want a Deere engine in something. I would guess that Toyota would get CAT as they want to appear as a North American as they can. Is Detroit Diesel now independent from Chysler? One of these manufacturers should talk with Komatsu and see if they would get into the On Highway business!That would have credibility right out of the gate.

Troyg143 - Posted June 26 2007 08:44 AM

5. Deere makes a 4.4 liter inline 4 cilinder. we have a tractor with one, really tough! Also, they build a inline 6 6.8 liter that would do good in ford superdutys. ford needs some one behind them that people can trust(nothin runs like a deere). oh how i would like to have that Beautiful green pain under the hood of my truck. now that ford has "restructured" they need to listen to what the consumers want such as half ton diesels.

mensinkfarms - Posted June 28 2007 07:10 PM

6. FYI it was Fords tech's who changed the head bolts to TORQUE TO YEILD FASTENERS.Thats why Navistar took Ford to court when ford wanted them to help pay some of the warranty claims.Navistar won in court.

jsulouff - Posted June 30 2007 03:13 AM

7. F

buckeyebinder - Posted July 6 2007 11:35 PM

8. I like how people want ford to drop navistar for the problems they FORD created. I have worked on the (VT365) 6.0 for years and have never changed a single head gasket. Ford has plans on using a small v-8 from the land rover line which I'm sure will be built over sea's or south of the border. The current powewestroke engine is built in the USA, but I'm sure putting thousands of americans out of work is worth being able to blow smoke with a tuner.

buckeyebinder - Posted July 7 2007 09:08 AM

9. I'm looking at a used ford F-550 Powerstroke to buy for hauling a six horse trailer. the truck is a dually a 1999 model with 120,000 miles on it . what is it worth? can you tell me where i could get a commercial bluebook? the guy wnts 20,000 for it. thanks

mojo43 - Posted July 22 2007 12:37 PM

10. OK, now that two of us have stated that the torque-to-yeild fasteners were Ford's idea, where can I read up on this? I ask because if it is true that Ford deliberately introduced a design flaw, and then covered its ass by forcing its dealers to detune our rigs, what does that say about Ford? Or about how we are valued as customers? So- please give me the links.

The 2004 6.0 I have has not blown its gaskets yet. It has an early Bully Dog tuner, however. It is always allowed a gentle warmup before I do anything crazy with the (alledged) 860 Ft/Lbs it (might) make. I have seen 30+ psi on the gauges, and wonder if demolition is just a matter of time. I wanted to add an MSD digital propane unit, but dare not try it if the fasteners are strained under the load of what I have already done....

Anybody tried this before me? Opinions?

Thanks, and happy burnouts!

PwrSci - Posted July 31 2007 01:24 PM

11. ford needs to wrap up its marriage to international and move on to newer and better engines period. they already put CAT engines in the 550&650 super dutys so why not just keep going down the line.CAT already leads the industry in fuel delivery systems in diesel engines. it would be great to see a ford right off the lot getting 20mpg instead of 12 or 13. but stay away from john deere they have terrible fuel consumption!

farmboy1 - Posted September 7 2007 02:06 PM

12. i am on my third ford truck and i have never had any major problems with any of them. that makes for a pretty bias opinion, but if u look at the stats ford trucks dont have any more breakdowns/recalls than chevy or dodge. now i just bought an 08 f-350 that now has 15k on it and not a single complaint with the exception of fuel mileage, but realisticly if you talk to most other diesel owners they dont get that good of mileage either, 12-15mpg. ford and navistar are having some problems but i dont really think that they will bring their realationship to an end afterall these years. maybe they will bring some of their engine production in house, but with 4 more years until the contract is up they arent going to hash out the billions of dollars that it is going to take to breach the contract an the cost of using navistars design in the own facility. i would like john deere to get their foot in the door but with CAT already in it would be my bet that if ford does get rid of navistar then they will take over....

mrsweatt - Posted November 22 2007 12:07 PM

13. If Ford left Navistar alone to produce the engines their way, I doubt that the 6.0 would be so problematic. If I had to choose between CAT or Deere I would choose CAT, because they are ahead of the power curve when it comes to producing highway diesels. I like my truck so much that when the 7.3 finally dies I think that I'll swap it out for a Cummins.

97PowerstrokeF-350 - Posted December 23 2007 10:58 PM

14. i heard quite a few cummins guys would go ford if it was a ford/cat combo.

TBISilverado - Posted February 15 2008 03:27 AM

15. I love my 6.0 but the it has had some substantial egr cooler issues that have left me stranded luckley ford covered the repair. I just wish the 6.0 could make cummins 5.9 power/torque!

Stroken6.0 - Posted July 7 2008 12:25 AM

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